Diatribune - Bush, George W - Comments

Here's a map that shows how

epppie — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:41:27 -0600

Here's a map that shows how convenient the Black Sea, by Georgia, is to both Russia and Iran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Caspianseamap.png

Like I said, I think the USS

epppie — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 18:22:37 -0600

Like I said, I think the USS Mount Whitney, just based on the little I've read about it, is possibly more threatening than a carrier. Or so it seems to me, anyway. I mean, if it REALLY is the most powerful and advanced command and control ship in the Navy, then God only knows how much weaponry it carries IN EFFECT. I keep ,hinking, the Navy must be awfully sure that it has figured out how to handle Russia's Sunburn missiles, because it seems very determined to present tempting Sunburn targets to both Russia and Iran.

I tend to agree with you re. hostilities, in that the only real reason for any of the aggressive posturing that has been going on for decades, but especially during the last decade, is to justify the ever growing military/industrial complex and to keep the dollar afloat. The two things are interdependent. Without total military dominance, all that money being poured into the military won't be worth much, because the dollar won't be worth much unless the US controls virtually all important trade routes, a task that is growing bigger and bigger. It seems to me that we face the exact dilemma that Rome and later Byzantium faced; our currency is so debased, by the hollowed out economy, that the only way to keep it afloat is to control the trade routes. You have to force people to use your debased currency as trade currency for it to have value. But that necessitates endless wars. Which necessitates endless military spending. Which was the point of the whole thing to begin with.

It's kindof funny to see the newest incarnation of Rome (the US, the NWO) battling against the newest incarnation of Byzantium (Moscow, the Shanghai Association) for the (long dreamed of) Endless World Empire.

That said, the specific situation revolving around Georgia has to do with three major things, it seems to me. One is the West's apparent intention to surround and choke Russia. The second, which relates to the first, is the West's apparent intention to control Caspian Sea oil (hence building a thousand mile pipeline, instead of a ten mile pipeline). The third, which relates to the other two, is the West's apparent determination to attack Iran. I think the West has concluded that Russia will have to be attacked at the same time, because Russia will come to Iran's defense if the West attacks Iran. As much as Russia might enjoy the raised price of oil if Iran is attacked, it has many strategic reasons, it seems to me, to ally with Iran.

Back again to the Mount Whitney. It seems well positioned to oversee an attack on both Russia and Iran.

I don't think there's any

Jacob Freeze — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:23:17 -0600

I don't think there's any particular reason for the Republicans to ratchet up hostilities with Russia, beyond the general usefulness of having the sort of enemy who can justify an endless series of multi-billion dollar weapons-systems.

How can you sell yet another high-tech bomber based on an enemy like the Taliban... just a few raggedy weirdos hiding in caves?

Otherwise, your news about the Mount Whitney is really frightening.

"MOUNT WHITNEY serves as the Flagship for Commander Second Fleet/Commander Striking Fleet Atlantic."

What the heck is the flagship of an Atlantic striking fleet doing in the Black Sea? Have we ever had a flagship in that pond before?

This is really beginning to look like a war.

So this is what all the

epppie — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:35:02 -0600

So this is what all the rumblings of war with Russia are about?!!!

"The $4 billion BTC pipeline, managed by and 30 percent owned by British Petroleum, was routed through Georgia to avoid sending Caspian oil through Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, or Russia. A 10-mile pipeline could have connected Caspian oil to the well-developed Iranian pipeline system"
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0816/p14s01-cogn.html

...so that we could spend billions to build and protect a thousand mile pipeline to Turkey instead of a ten mile pipeline to Iran?!!

From Dandelion Salad:
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/us-invade-pakistan-—-but-no-complaints-from-the-‘international-community’-by-william-bowles/#comment-72810

Cheney pours it

epppie — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 10:34:29 -0600

Cheney pours it on.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_us

"Speaking during a closely watched trip to this strategic South Caucasus nation, Cheney also said the United States was "fully committed" to Georgian efforts to join NATO.

"Georgia will be in our alliance," Cheney told reporters while standing alongside Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili."

It must be comforting to the other members of Nato to know that they don't have to worry about any decisions. The US makes them all. Cheney makes them all!

""America will do its duty to work with the governments of Georgia and our other friends and allies to protect our common interests and to uphold our values," Cheney said in the joint appearance with Saakashvili."

Which value is that, Dick? I hope it's not the one where it's cool to sic your military on your own people.

"The United States is at Georgia's side, Cheney said, "as you work to overcome an invasion of your sovereign territory and an illegitimate, unilateral attempt to change your country's borders by force, that has been universally condemned by the free world.""

Ok, you're joking, right, Dick? I mean, I thought you were the guy who was all for invading sovereign countries like Iraq and Iran!
It's ok for you, but not for Russia?

And did you forget that Georgia started the war by attacking, along with South Ossetia, Russian peacekeepers legitimately in South Ossetia by treaty?

Apparently AP forgot that. Check out their headline:

"Cheney slams Russia for war against Georgia"

So, it seems that the media now accept it as fact that Russia attacked Georgia, when it was actually the other way around.

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When and where do these decisions get made? Like the decision that Russia is our enemy. When and where did that decision get made? Isn't it frightening sometimes, the way both parties and the media fall into lockstep on that. They don't even stop to think, why do we have to have enemies in the first place? Another thing they love to do is to talk about "future threats" as if they were a given.

Yeah, I know. America doesn't necessarily have to have future threats, but the military industrial complex does.

Bush continues to play his

epppie — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 18:33:58 -0600

Bush continues to play his "dangerous game' of Russia baiting. He has announced a billion dollars in aid for Georgia - that's half of what Israel gets!!!!!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080903/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_georgia

"Though U.S. officials emphasized that none of the current package was for military aid, there was no effort to rule that out for the future."

Yeah, not only did they not rule that out for the future, but US and EU officials have openly promised to rebuild Georgia's forces - and it's pretty hard to believe that a lot of that billion dollars won't end up in Israel, in exchange for weaponry.

But here's the real kicker. Instead of sending the third installment of "humanitarian" aid (which Russia suspects, no doubt rightly, in my opinion, may not be entirely humanitarian) on a freighter, the Bush administration sent a third warship, and this one's a doozy: the USS Mount Whitney. The Mount Whitney does not carry a lot of weaponry, but ...

"Considered by some to be the most sophisticated Command, Control, Communications, Computer, and Intelligence (C4I) ship ever commissioned, Mount Whitney incorporates various elements of the most advanced C4I equipment and gives the embarked Joint Task Force Commander the capability to effectively command all units under the command of the Commander, Joint Task Force.
The Mount Whitney can transmit and receive large amounts of secure data to and from any point on earth through HF, UHF, VHF, and SHF (satellite communications) communications channels. This electronic technology enables the Joint Intelligence Center and Joint Operations Center to provide the timely intelligence and operational support available in the Navy.
The Mount Whitney deployed in 1994 to Haiti with Lt. Gen. Hugh Shelton, the commander of the XVIII Airborne Corps, in command of the Joint Task Force that conducted Operation Uphold Democracy.
On November 12, 2002, Mount Whitney deployed to the Central Command area of responsibility in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. She was acting as the initial command post for Combined Joint Task Force - Horn of Africa. During the deployment, the ship embarked elements of the 2nd Marine Division and II Marine Expeditionary Force (II MEF), based at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, under the command of Maj. Gen. John F. Sattler and captain Morton W. Kenyon."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Mount_Whitney_(LCC-20)

Granted, the Whitney has water distilling capbilities, but I'd say it's a huge conflict escalation to send such a sophisticated command and control ship. The only thing that could be more threatening militarily, I suspect, would be a carrier.
In fact, it strikes me that the east shore of the Black Sea MIGHT be the perfect location for a coordinated attack on Russia and Iran.

Laughably, Rice had this to say (she constantly outdoes herself):

""The free world cannot allow the destiny of a small independent country to be determined by the aggression of a larger neighbor," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters at the State Department in a simultaneous announcement with Bush."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080903/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_georgia

Gee, who has invaded more countries since 1980, Condi? The United States or Russia?

Condi's comedy performance didn't end there:

"She mocked Russia for its recognition of the two separatist regions in Georgia that are at the heart of the conflict that broke out last month, and for its failure to garner international backing.

"Almost no one followed suit, I might note. It isn't really an impressive list to have Abkhazia and South Ossetia recognize each other," she said."

Guess how many nations have recognized Kosovo. 46. Almost all of them are US clients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reaction_to_the_2008_Kosovo_d...

And get this: Georgia DOESN'T recognize Kosovo!

"Foreign Minister of Georgia, David Bakradze, said on 18 February 2008 that Tbilisi would not recognise Kosovo's independence, adding: "I think everyone in Georgia, regardless of political orientation, is unanimous on this".[141][142][143] On 9 May 2008 President of Georgia, Mikhail Saakashvili, said "We are saying loud and clear that we have never planned to recognise Kosovo. Nor do we plan to do so in the future. The way out of the situation that has been chosen is not the best one. The Serbs should have been given more time for negotiations. The solution for Kosovo was a hasty one."[144] On 29 March 2008 the Prime Minister, Lado Gurgenidze, gave a recorded interview in Estonia, in which he clearly said in English that as Georgia's friends have recognized Kosovo, it is only natural that eventually Georgia will do likewise. The printed publication of the interview elicited demands by the opposition to impeach him, and the government spokesman stated that the Prime Minister was misinterpreted, after which the Estonian paper Postimees, which conducted and printed the interview, released the audio to the world."

Lol! You are certainly a funny lady, Condi! But you have nothing like Dick Cheney's keen sense of irony!

"Cheney made a point in Azerbaijan of saying that Washington has "a deep and abiding interest" in the region's stability."

Well, of course, Naturally, And the first thing someone with a "deep and abiding interest" in the region's stability would do is put a guy like Shaakashvilli in power and arm him to the teeth!!! And send a ship full of cruise missiles to the region. And follow that up with the most sophisticated command and control ship in the world.

Good points. I don't have

danps — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:21:41 -0600

Good points. I don't have anything to add to any of them.

The propaganda parade

epppie — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:40:51 -0600

The propaganda parade continues. Google had this Voice of America piece to offer just now:

http://voanews.com/english/2008-08-30-voa9.cfm

as a top headline no less!! A top headline with lies like this going unquestioned:

"Georgia's minister for European integration, David Darchiashvili,... says the government is becoming increasingly confident that it did the right thing in confronting Russia, and that it will be able to defend itself against domestic critics.

"I am ready to answer any questions," he said. "I do not see any major breach from our side, the principles we stayed for years. We do not want to confront Russia with it's huge resources, but it's Russia that wants to reconquer Georgia. So we should not defend ourselves?""

How can they get away with such lies? If what Russia wanted to do was conquer Georgia, it would have all been over in 24 hours!
How? Massive amounts of US/EU/Nato political and media collusion with their lies.

Interestingly, the VOA article confirms what Russia has been claiming and the US has been denying: that the US is shipping in Military supplies along with 'humanitarian' supplies:

"The United States has poured tens of millions of dollars of humanitarian assistance and uncounted military aid into Georgia, "

...so the US is caught in its own lie, not that anyone will pay any attention.

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And you know what's so massively sickening about all this? It's that Putin is undoubtedly a thug, but compared to Western leaders, he's an effing saint and a genius too. That really makes me puke. It's like the Iraq situation, where that total monster Saddam turned out to be telling more truth than Bush and Blair, than our leaders.

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The VOA article also practically boasts about how isolated Russia is. But it's lying. Not only has Russia gotten moderate support from the Shanghai Association, but it's also gotten considerably warmer support from Venezuela and Belarus, both of which VOA claims 'rebuffed' Russia. Here's an article re. Venezuela, from Reuters :

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN2945876620080829

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The question to ask, in my opinion, is why the US and EU are soooooooo determined to start a Cold War with Russia, or even perhaps to start a Hot War? I mean, with the US pouring military supplies into Georgia, and packing a fleet into both the Black Sea and the Mediterranean ... it's pretty much seems like they WANT something to happen. How can they possibly be so eager to play such dangerous games with Russia, when they know what the consequences could easily be? Can it be that they are actually that mad, that crazy? Cheney is on his way to Georgia in a week. That's never a sign of good things to come.

A very good discussion of

epppie — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:02:24 -0600

A very good discussion of South Ossetia by Eric Margolis:

http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/eric-margolis-the-us-crea...

I think these are good

epppie — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:53:57 -0600

I think these are good observations and can be compared to how crime organizations work. I think it can also be compared to how the CIA works. Look at Saakashvilli, who appears to be possibly a CIA project. Would he have any outstanding career prospects without US support?

Of course, the flip side is that incompetence has all kinds of side effects. Then again, if Naomi Wolf is right about disaster capitalism, those too may ultimately be desirable, from a CIA or Bushevik point of view.

But I think there's something more that needs to be said about Mukasey. To the winner go the spoils? If that were the principle in play, Mukasey should have had no shot, considering that the Dems had just massively swept the last election. In fact, our system is set up to allow but also limit the "to the winner go the spoils" system.

And if I were a Democrat, I'd be thinking about the way the Dems have rolled over for Bush again and again and again over the last 8 years, whether they were on the winners side of the table or the losers side. When Mukasey couldn't bring himself to condemn waterboarding, that should have been an automatic YANK! moment. Unquestionably. His nomination shouldn't have gone one step further.

But it did. It went a whole lot further. The fact is, the Dems in Congress felt satisfied with Gonzalez' hide tacked to the wall. And that, to me, is sickening. Gonzalez was the least at fault in this administration. He was a patsy, the one stupid enough not to cover his moves. The Gonzalez witchhunt was just a show put on by the Dems in Congress, with the aquiescence of the White House, to pacify their base, to make it look like they were REALLY on the case.

Here's an example of how in

epppie — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:33:25 -0600

Here's an example of how in lockstep on Georgia the western media and western political establishment have been: the other day, I saw a headline on yahoo in the morning (can't remember the news-source) stating that Russia had won supportive concessions from the Shanghai Association of Asian states. By afternoon, the headline had been changed to 'Russia Rebuffed by...' - but the article was exactly the same. Since then, every news source seems to use the word "rebuffed", even though that plainly doesn't fit what actually happened, at least according to reports.

In fact, what seems to have happened is that the Shanghai association issued a purposefully vague statement that was generally supportive of Russia, but which did not go so far as to join Russia in recognizing Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Later in the day I read an analysis of China's stance on the situation, which stated that China would carefully, but unquestionably not support such recognition, because of it's problems with separatist areas, particularly Taiwan. But, of course, it's obvious, I think, that Russia's recognition of Ossetia is as much as anything supportive of China's continued interest in annexing Taiwan. So China will presumably continue to avoid making any clear moves or statements.

Not surprisingly, the Kremlin has now announced that it will absorb South Ossetia and Abkhazia...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4635843.ece

...that might not have happened had the US/EU/Nato and Georgia been willing to negotiate over the status of the two areas. Instead, all of those political entities and every western media source I've seen has simply assumed that the status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as part of Georgia has been a 'done deal'. In fact, it NEVER has been an established fact. Both areas were asserting their independence from Georgia BEFORE GEORGIA EVER BECAME A COUNTRY SEPARATE FROM THE USSR. And Russian forces have been in South Ossetia from the beginning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia

The wrangling between the three entities (Georgia, Russia and South Ossetia) has never stopped, but it has been Georgia that has been decisively attempting to change the status quo in recent years. And as these soldier interviews make crystal clear...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4636590.ece

...this has been done with assistance and training from the US and Israel, and - further - that the Georgian military is eager to try again, at least on the grunt level (which presumably reflects what soldiers are hearing from higher up, or what soldiers think their higher ups would like to hear from them).

That makes sense. W carries

epppie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:38:17 -0600

That makes sense. W carries a club with him so it's on hand when folks need to get his attention!

I don't see any tinfoil on

Jacob Freeze — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:02:22 -0600

I don't see any tinfoil on you, but I like the baseball bat, or caveman club, or whatever it is in some of your images. It reminds me of an old joke...

A passer-by meets a farmer and his mule stopped in the middle of the road. After a while the farmer smacks the mule right between the eyes with a two-by-four. Then he says "Go, mule," and the mule starts pulling the wagon.

The passer-by says "Why didn't you just say "Go, mule" instead of using a two-by-four?"

"First I had to get his attention."

I've been wondering about

epppie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:46:09 -0600

I've been wondering about things like that. For example, what percentage of lawyers have ever read the Constitution? I'll bet it's a lot less than one would ever think.

It's been driving me crazy.

epppie — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:44:05 -0600

It's been driving me crazy. In fact, I went to a local peace demonstration and the guy running asked why I was there, and I said "the situation in Georgia" and he looked at me like I had a cone head or something.

And one of the really weird things about the Georgia situation is that while most folk are paying little attention to it, almost all the politicians and media were in lockstep immediately about it. It's one of those things that makes a person break out the tin foil...